Think Christian - Latest Comments in Modesty: A short rant

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Val Lee — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:18:14 -0000

Christian women are called to dress in bashfulness towards men. It is according to separated standards. It is not to be based on the ways of sinful culture, from which, we are called to be separated from. All women need to make it a matter of prayer.

God has performed a work in my heart in this area through seeking Him. I have had to confess those past years, when I did not always dress in Biblical obedience. (1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 5:2)

We are to ensure that males look upon us as sisters in all purity. We do have a responsibility. There are video interviews in which Christian men explain how church sisters can cause them to stumble by showing skin or by wearing tight clothing.

We are commanded to obey the Word of God. It is not a book from which we simply take what we like. Jesus Christ commands obedience to His Word, because He loves us and knows what is best for us. He is our LORD and Master.

He also saves us by His grace, and He moves in grace to change unbiblical attitudes, as we allow the Holy Spirit to control our lives.

(1 John 5:10-13)

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Dylan — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:13:01 -0000

This post, for the win! Modesty is, indeed, not a protection against creepy men. My mother was nearly raped despite being a modestly dressed woman at all times (this happened before I was born, but from the way she dresses now and what I've seen in pictures, I'm positive she was never a woman for ostentatious show.).
I have been approached by creeps no matter what I happened to be wearing, and I am generally covered in eleventy million layers, in order to disguise my very womanly figure (I sometimes border on looking like a round boy to escape unwanted attention. However, I cannot control the fact that my hips do sway when I walk. I'm sorry -- it's how I was designed. What was it Jessica Rabbit said? "I don't /want/ to look like this -- it's how I was drawn." Something like that. It seems to me that Christians spend too much time blaming women for how they were drawn by God. Certainly, we shouldn't go out of our way to lure a man's lustful attentions, but how far do we go to prevent their lustful thoughts? Seriously, when is a man ever responsible for himself? Cannot a man go, "She's attractive" without then directing pornographic videos in his mind about what else he'd like to see?

Jesus didn't tell us not to admire beauty. He just said stop looking with lust on the brain. In other words, "Man, con/trol/ yourself. Are you really that incapable of controlling your own mind?"

The scary thing is, I've been fighting with myself over femininity for so long because I've been told too often that I'm not the standard for Christian, feminine beauty. And yet when I try, I get too much unwelcome attention for it.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Andy — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:34:42 -0000

Your Muslim comparison is right on. They use the exact same logic. "Modesty" protects women from ravenous males.

On a related note, I once heard modesty compared to the Israelite tabernacle/temple, in that the sacred things inside the Tabernacle were kept concealed and hidden from all but a few.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

SiarlysJenkins — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:45:43 -0000

From the comments posted here, one could get the impression that men who act like pigs, are prone to rape, and have little respect for women, feel an affinity for churches with conservative, fundamentalist doctrines. It would be unfair to suggest that all members of any church are alike. But perhaps men who cannot bring themselves to show respect for a lady find comfort in the doctrine of Original Sin. They can say "It's not my fault, Adam did it, its part of my nature, I just can't control myself," rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. Somehow, I don't think that is what Jesus had in mind when he spoke of forgiveness.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

charles — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:48:13 -0000

i dont care who you are if your a man you will all have a ploblem with seeing the naked flesh of a woman with out your mind running to all sorts of conclusions about what lurks benith the rest, the more we can see the more suggestive it is to us and the more wild our minds will run. We as men all deal with this problem on a day to day basis, We are all sexual preadotors in some form, Yes when i see a woman in a burka this leaves nothing for my mind to play on, only the beauty of her eyes so the mind play is reduced almost to zero but give me a babe in a bikini and my mind goes wild. We as a society have been largley driven by the large media advertising companies SEX SELLS is the motto and all this photographic imagery plastered in every nook and cranny just fuels the mans desire to get some(so to say).
Now im not making any excuse but the responsibilty lies in both sexes women to realise how men think and work, and men to respect women as humans and not sexual objects

Re: Modesty: A short rant

SiarlysJenkins — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:51:43 -0000

A perfectly infallible God could do anything he chose to do. But do we know exactly what he DID choose to do, or why? I don't. I once heard a radio personality exclaim that if any word in any printed copy of the Bible were not exactly what God wanted it to be, he would have supernaturally changed it. The problem with that is that there ARE many different translations which say substantially different things. We each read the Scriptures, and come to radically different conclusions. I once met some Jehovah's Witnesses on the street, and courteously explained there are some features in their publications I appreciate, others I do not share. A woman asked me "But, do you read the Bible?" Of course, I answered, but all churches read the Bible, and look at how different they all are. Somewhere in there is what God wants us to understand, no question. But none of us have a very complete understanding.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

SiarlysJenkins — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:47:24 -0000

Ally and Cortney have answered that more poignantly than I could ever do.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

romayn — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:59:53 -0000

Is it possible that a perfect infallable God would have us recieve in His word what he intended and that man's input was inspired by Him alone? Regardless of the disciples' intention God allows us to read the scriptures for ourselves and speak to us directly doesn't He? God presented Himself in His glory to the Israelites in the temple. We are now his temple. He was extremely particular about the building, adornment, etc of the temple. Why not our bodies?
(I think rape and our dress are just 2 and too seperate issues that we sometimes try to tie together becuase we think of this act of violence as sex).

Re: Modesty: A short rant

romayn — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:38:57 -0000

That reminds me of what my pastor said this Sunday (different topic). We might not know "why" but we know "who" and that is what matters.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

romayn — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:37:05 -0000

That's true but we are taught to not leave things of value in plain view where a thieving type would look through the window and be tempted to steal. It's kinda like a theif who chooses to break into the home on the block that looks most easy to break into. We can sometimes avoid being robbed just by appearing to have a more secure home. The theif is still a theif of course and that is not the innocent home owners fault but why not take a little extra precaution to protect "God's home".

Re: Modesty: A short rant

SiarlysJenkins — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:54:36 -0000

That's what Paul and Peter said. Successive church councils may have agreed to put it into the Bible, but its not on the same plane as "Thus saith the Lord..." or "Then God said unto Abraham..." or "And God told Moses..." nor on the same plane as the red lettered text in the New Testament, which is (we hope) a reasonable approximation of the words of Jesus himself. Paul and Peter had to deal with pagans who were never Jews, with former temple prostitutes of Diana, and all kinds of things. We have little context for what they really intended when they offered these admonitions.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

WagingLove — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:11:59 -0000

Of course, the scriptures bear some relevance to the topic. I think the distraction is in us trying to guess WHY God tells us what He tells us, not THAT He tells us to do something. Or, is there an objection to what scripture says as well? God's word strikes a different chord from that of our current culture.

"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. I Tim 2:9,10

"Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. -I Pet 3:3,4

Human beings, men and women, are wonderfully made in God's own image, and are inherently beautiful. Especially when they let His image be renewed within through the new birth and ongoing discipleship. Maybe God wants us to look WAY more beautiful than our current fashions and designers are capable of imagining. Maybe He wants us to look ugly. But He says what He says.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

SiarlysJenkins — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:14:16 -0000

I recall a woman making a similar comparison. She said something about young women assuming "I should be able to get drunk and go up to a boy's room and pass out, and nothing should happen to me." The woman recounting this philosophy responded "Oh really? And when you drive into New York City, do you leave your car keys on the hood ornament?" We are all called upon for a certain amount of common sense. But there is a huge difference between passing out drunk in a bedroom in a house full of drunk males, and choosing clothes to wear for the day. I don't recall anyone saying that in order not to present a temptation for bad men to steal your car, you should keep it parked under a tent so they won't see its gleaming paint job, and therefore nobody would think of stealing it.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Andy S — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:04:32 -0000

I believe that men can control themselves not to steal my car, too, but I still lock it because some won't. That doesn't reflect badly on "men" as a whole does it?

It's a fine line and you're only looking at one side. On the other, young girls dressed up to attract attention (immodestly) will get that attention.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Cortney — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:33:37 -0000

Thank you Ally! The night my best friend tried to rape me I was wearing a floor length skirt and a long sleeved shirt. I was then a member of a very conservative church. I never wore makeup, always wore skirts, and never had sleeves shorter than elbow length.

And we've all had the experience of wearing sweats and a huge baggy t-shirt and having some nasty guy leer at you, whistle at you, etc. I can get behind not dressing immodestly to honor yourself, but please let's not trick girls into thinking dressing modestly is some magic bullet against perverts

Re: Modesty: A short rant

ally — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:01:01 -0000

the night i was raped, i was wearing sweats and a sweatshirt. i'm not sure i could've covered up any more than that... and yet it still happened. it's too bad that some people truly do believe that ignorance is bliss.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Heather — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 19:01:56 -0000

I think some of your points are valid-- but I think you may have missed the point- I don't know your age but I am just a few years short of fifty. I believe that God's original intent was for man to be a protector of women-- that is in his nature and is his role one that has been extremely perverted as a result of the fall. Also, few women grasp the huge difference in the way men and women process visual stimuli- they literally have a visual rolodex that can be very easily called up and cause a thought process that can lead to lust. When we dress immodestly we are stepping out from protection-- even if it is being protected from being in a seemingly perfectly well behaved man's lustful thoughts.
Certainly it is honoring to God if we dress modestly and honoring to ourselves-- who wants to be judged simply by level of sexiness.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

romayn — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:39:34 -0000

What difference does it make if some men can or cannot control themselves? The fact is they don't. The Bible says men's hearts are full of only evil continually. God's only desire for us is to love us and fellowship with us. Therefore, He would only tell us to dress modestly if it mattered. To either protect us, those around us (remember lust alone is sin-how many men who would never physically hurt a woman would lust after her even if only briefly) or to honor him. Remember he has called us to be beyond reproach and avoid even the appearance of evil. Lots of unrighteous men assume wrong things about women solely based on the way they adorn themselves. How many of us who are Christian have to ask the Lord for assistance in controling our own desires even though we would not consider putting them into action. Did the women on the radio specify what alterior motives they were specifically speaking of? Could they have been refering to enticement rather than physical attacks? It is God who holds us to a higher standard. Wherever we go (or are) Christ is also there. As long as we know that the way we are dressed would not make us feel uncomfortable infront of Him then He knows are heart.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

vmrhill19 — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 13:09:33 -0000

I don't fully agree. I know it's not full proof to dress modestly but modest dress is not an allure like some of the clothes women wear. Perhaps this is what the lady on the radio was talking about.

From a man's point of view.

Gary

Re: Modesty: A short rant

mrben — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:32:33 -0000

I think, for me at least, dressing modestly doesn't mean wearing a sack. It means wearing clothes that cover your body appropriately. In this day and age, that means going against some of the current trends - no low-cut trousers combined with high-rise g-string; no tops that show off half your belly (and often lower with the aforementioned low-rise trousers); avoid tops that are so loose that bending over means that men can see all the way from your neck to your navel. It doesn't mean you can't look attractive, or that you have to look somehow androgynous. Nor does it mean that you can't wear clothes that outline your figure. But there's a big difference between outlining your figure and being half-naked.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Drew — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:46:34 -0000

See this a perfect example of the extremes. We go from modesty to boobs hanging out...and women know this better than anyone, sometimes no matter what you wear, breasts can't be hidden. Does dressing modestly mean women should always wear a sweatshirt that is three sizes to large because they have breasts that a are a bit larger; or wear pants that are baggy so the shape of there butt can't be seen? As a man that is married to a wife that had trouble hiding some of those things that I love about her, I will say no! I dont want my wife walking down the street with her breasts hanging out, but I want her to feel good about what she wears...and that is cloths that fit!

Re: Modesty: A short rant

kjml — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:54:17 -0000

I'm a woman. I like to dress attractively. That generally means that I like to emphasize those aspects of my appearance that are considered--by men and women--to be "attractive". Duh. But, I also acknowledge that men are human and while many--such as those who have posted here--are trying very hard to accept responsibility for their own lusts and temptations, there are others who cannot, or will not, do so. That's just a fact of life and I take that into consideration when I make my wardrobe choices.
Mary, the bottom line is that, when God speaks in your life, he's talking to YOU. Not to "the other guy." You are only in control of, and responsible for, YOUR choices. It is Your responsiblity to not [knowingly] present yourself as a stumbling block --whether to believers, or unbelievers.
Is that "fair?" Heck, no. Who said it should, or would, be? Was Jesus being crucified for being what he was created and born to be, fair? God has His own agenda and, as Christians, it is more our responsibility to bring about fairness in the world, than to expect it for ourselves.
There's nothing wrong with reminding the male of the species that they are called to be responsible for, and in control of, their own choices (rather than dictating to women how they should behave), but I hope you're not preaching that sermon in a string bikini and 4" heels. 'Cause God might have something to say to you about that someday.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

PMDubuc — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:07:01 -0000

Well said. To think that the way we dress doesn't send a message or that it sends only messages that we want it to is a bit naive, to say the least. The fashion and advertising industries certainly know better. It strikes me that immodestly dressed women also protect themselves from modest men who "get the message" (intended or not) and avoid or feel uncomfortable around such women. When they do this they are acting responsibly. The responsibility is shared by both women and men (in different ways).

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Jessica Denise — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:07:28 -0000

I am going to disagree with you on this one. I think that God calls us to purity and holiness and the like for our protection in many ways. It may not dissuade super weird creeper men, but being immodest does attract the wrong kind of man. It's not to say that men can't control themselves. I don't believe that was stated implicity or explicity. I do believe that if I walk down the street with my boobs hanging out, men who are interested in girls who are more loose with their sexuality (which that will imply most of the time) are going to be more likely to talk to me. Dressing modestly can definitely protect women from men who aren't interested in controlling themselves the way that we assume most Christian men are.

Re: Modesty: A short rant

Moe — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:57:39 -0000

All men are pigs? Really? Cause last time I checked, we were made in the image of God and reveal his handiwork in us. We are sinners, and we are enticed by beauty, but that is far from being labeled a pig. God created that appreciation for beauty, it was God's design. Yes, we have perverted God's design, but I would never say that we are "pigs". Oh and just so you know, I know some very respectful unbelievers, and sad to say, some very disrespectful beleivers. We are all ducks swimming in the same pond.