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That is not the Jesus I know!!!!! You can't have Him as the only way to any way. He can't be resurrected and have never died and resurrected at the same time.
What's going on? Is that people now ask for a NEW RELIGION ORDER? or BELIEF ORDER? Do people really want this type of unity in man and not in Christ. By the way, the Quran was written in the 7th century by a man who had lived among Jews and Christians, perhaps you might find similarities but not the TRUTH!
Obama is all about change for the betterment of people's lives. He's fairly young and hopes to really make a difference. If he succeeds in improving things it will send a message to the media-saturated, uncritical world that Bush failed because he was a conservative Christian and so now we have proof that left is good, secular with a sprinkling of faith is good etc.
Our challenge is therefore to show the world that real social betterment is most effectively achieved when Christian beliefs are put into practice regardless who puts it into practice or what faith they profess.
I remember how excited Christian's were about George W Bush when he was coming up for election. He was this born again Christian who was gonna end abortion, get rid of poverty, and show Christ's love to everyone. Needless to say those things didn't happen.
I don't believe any one man no matter how powerful his position or walk is going to change the government. Our time would be better spent reaching out and loving those around us, rather than looking for the president to save us.
@ Mephibashef
I agree with you both. Abortion and gay marriage are going to be big issues when it comes to Obama/Christian relations. I pray that his faith will be stronger than the Democratic platform when it's time for him to deal with these issues. Any strides he's made so far with reaching out to Christians could be lost depending on how he handles these issues.
I support my new President, but I find it distrubing that he has so many contradictions going on at once. He is a man of many faces. Sure, he says he is a follower of Christ (it't not my call as to if he is or isn't), so I will trust him till he shows otherwise...but I have a problem when he says in his speech that science will "be put back in it's proper place".
And as to worried fellow's comments - nail on the head. Mr. Warren has been troublesome since the beginning. I have always had a dislike for him, as his version of the Bible is so watered down (he uses a lot of praraphrased bibles), and on top of that, he is very generic with his messages. Christ didn't come to us with a watered down feel good message. He came to us with a spur to action do-or-die message. This business with incorporating other religions in with his faith is just his latest step in leading people awry. Yes, I have had a very firm suspicion/feeling for quite some time now that Mr. Warren has an agenda of leading people down the wrong path. He sounds like one of my wife's friends who incorporates the choice pieces of any religion into her own, and it has grown to the point where her religion cannot be considered any one faith any more - so yes, you can say it - not New Religion Order, but New World Order. New Age. Against God.
We walk and live in a dark world. Let us continue to bring the Light to it until the very end.
I wish I could just once see a conversation about how evangelicals can help affect positive change by working with Obama (or anyone different from them) _without_ mentioning gay rights or abortion. Just once! We all know his stance on these issues. He believes differently than you. I'd like to see us figure out how God can use him to make the world a better place. If God uses him for anything over the next 4 years, then we should be behind that 100% without the obligatory footnote about gays and abortion.
There was an article in TIME about children with relatively mild cases of Down's Syndrome who, with some matchmaking help from their mothers, had decided to marry. The bride asked her mother, if we have babies, will they have Down's Syndrome too. The mother truthfully said yes. The bride, after some tears, decided to have her tubes tied. She knew, as no-one else could, how difficult her life had been. While she was making the best of it, she resolved not to bring into the world a baby with the same difficulties. I applaud her courage and empathy.
One reason rubella is so much more devastating during pregnancy is precisely that the life growing within the mother is incomplete, undeveloped, and does not yet have fully developed faculties, so that the destruction wreaked by the infection may have more dire and irreversible consequences. I had rubella, measles, chicken pox, mumps, as a child, some years out of the womb, but it was merely a painful episode from which I recovered. I repeat, if rubella has damaged the tissues in an early stage of pregnancy, I would without hesitation remove the damaged tissue.
Nevertheless, the Lord WILL you Barack Obama and his presidency for His glory, regardless of Obama's decisions, policies, or politics. Of this we should all be sure. The Gospel does not need a government's stamp of approval in order to flourish.
For evangelicals Nathan, abortion and gay rights are a huge problem. You can't pretend that someone that holds values like he does on those issues, is going to hold God pleasing attitudes on the other areas of his life. I dont think Bush did a good job holding to conservative spending ideals. Actions speak louder than words...you cant say your a Christian and then go act contrary to Christian believes. Yes, God is the only one that can judge the heart, but I am not judging his heart here. I am judging what the future of our country will be based off of the past actions (or lack of actions) of our new President.
The role of the parents, the elders, is to extend the kind of love that will promote growth and it is the same kind of love we need to extend to the newcomer - the one who is in our midst to help us grow as well.
So it is with our new President. He has yet to meet most of us, so we need to be as patient with him as we are with the newborn. Some may think they will have to change too many diapers, but for those of us who have changed many, a word of caution - relax and focus our opinions on shaping ourselves and those closest to us.
Or 2vTimothy 3:1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of
God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power.
How about Matthew 7: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Christians can't just take someone at their word! Would we just take a man at his word if he said he was a lion? The difference, of course, we can see with our eyes his human form, but as for the spirit, if it is the Spirit of Truth, for that we must look below the surface. We can't see someone's heart, but we can surely grasp the fruit of their actions and words.
There are many articles published of interviews Mr. Obama gave that contradicts the Christian faith... primarily and most importantly that there are many ways to heaven. Last I heard, there is only ONE.
Both Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama express this viewpoint. So they can call themselves Christians all they want -- it's easy to take on a form of godliness. But their fruit appears to be from another tree.
You can read one of Obama's interview for yourself here: http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11... and here for Mr. Bush: http://lavrai.com/blogs/2008/12/09/bush-bible-n...
And to answer your question, if President Obama stands on a platform of inclusiveness for his faith (as shown by his inauguration choices) then it appears America is headed down a broad road... and we know where that one leads. But he's the president of a nation made up of various peoples and cultures -- religious and non-religious. He can still represent them all without ushering in a presidency of blood and poor moral values (i.e., funding abortions worldwide and endorsing "gay bishops.") His faith should have taught him that GOD values human life at all stages and that homosexuals are not in the Church.
I don't connect it particularly to abortion, more than to any other action that humans may or may not commit, but I agree that no one can tell an adult female to have an abortion or not to, and that each woman should be provided the proper medical attention she will need. I don't think President Obama has ever said or done otherwise. For myself, you are correct that I do not consider what a pregnant woman carries to be a child at every stage. I also respect the right of any pregnant woman to decide that what she carries IS a child, and act accordingly. There are no good answers, but I believe intervention by The State should be based on whether the fetus, if removed from the mother's womb, can survive on its own without artificial breathing equipment. For the rest, proclaim what you believe, and try to persuade others to agree and act on that agreement.
By its very nature, partial birth abortion can ONLY be performed at the very end of the third trimester. It is not applicable during the second or third trimesters. Therefore, it is already illegal, unless the mother's life (or health) are in danger. IF the mother's life is in danger, then, tragically, the baby (and at that point I have no doubt it is a baby) will be killed to save the mother. What difference does it make which procedure is used? It should be done swiftly to minimize pain, period. Otherwise, passing laws to prohibit a specific procedure are redundant, ANY procedure would be a criminal violation. Obama has recognized that throughout his legislative career and, mindful of the manipulative intent behind the campaigns for this redundant legislation, voted against it. That is to his credit.
"Quinn’s confusion comes from having ignored the most important basis of pluralism that the United States offers. Precisely by distinguishing the political community from many faith communities, the US Constitution opens the public arena to diverse faith communities, all of which are free to be exclusive in their membership while being included on equal terms in American society."
Now, a little over a month later, everyone wants to discuss whether Obama is a Christian based on this or that doctrine or focus or preoccupation that each person has. The Obama family's choice of church or faith is never going to represent the nation, nor should it. If we picked our president in order to be the symbol of our national faith, then once the president was elected, we should all accept his faith as our own. That's backwards of course: we don't have to accept the president's faith as ours, nor do he or his family have to accept ours as his.
Most of us here seem to be Protestants. For a little perspective, let's look at how this would play out for a Roman Catholic. I won't type it all here. Anyone interested, check out what I previously posted at www.madfederalist.blogspot.com concerning the dilemmas of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.
God bless and help him, and us.
Praise God
I am sorry Sherwood, but that is one of the most foolish things I have ever heard from anyone. I am not going accept the idea that we need to look at a new president like we do a newborn. Wow...seriously!
This "Christian" signed papers to fund abortion programs here and even outside our own country! How can anyone defend his Christainity despite all this?
I know this blog and most of the comments were made before that announcement, but those defending him now have nothing to stand on. God help us.
1) I find it interesting that wearing clothing of mixed fibers is also an abomination. That's the one I find gives me the problem (ahh I do love my cotton/poly blends), not so much the homosexuality one, it's the fibers.
2) Did I fall asleep in church or seminary where we are given the ability to see where people ultimately wind up? That sure could have come in useful in the past but I'm glad angie's gift of ultimate determination is going strong.
The two major issues that have been brought up, over and over, regarding President Obama's faith, are abortion and gay marriage. It is my opinion that, on these issues, he is making decisions based on equal rights and freedoms--not Biblical mandates. Which (again, in my opinion) is exactly what he should do. He is our President, not a religious leader.
It is possible to personally believe that abortion is wrong AND to believe that a woman should have the right to make that choice. Likewise, it is perfectly possible to believe that homosexuality is a sin AND to believe that homosexual couples should have equal rights under the law.
I do not agree with all the stances that President Obama has taken, but I also do not believe that it is his responsibility, as a self-proclaimed Christian, to enact Christianity as law.
Some may argue to the contrary, but the truth is that the United States is not, has never been, and never will be, a truly "Christian" nation. And this is a good thing! Were our government as intimately intertwined with the church as many seem to wish it were, would we truly have the freedom to worship God at all?
So in response to the question posed in Jerod's post, I do believe that faith will flourish under Obama's presidency--if we let it. If we look beyond tiny squabbles and get past the small-minded dogma that has seemed so prevalent for the last eight years. There are so many things happening in the world that Christians should care about beyond the legality of abortion or gay marriage.
Do I believe that President Obama will invite the faith community to play a vital role in creating social change? I certainly hope so, but that remains to be seen.
Do I pray that God will grant him wisdom as he makes decisions? Yes.
But do I wish to see him enact more Christian laws? No. Enacting religious laws that happen to agree with my beliefs isn't any better than enacting religious laws that I disagree with.
We are not judging Obama, but we do have the right to look at his backround and see how authentic he is. That is what this is about...not whether he supports gay marriage or not. If we wanted to talk straight politics, we could post ideas elsewhere, but we want to look at these ideas from a Christian perspective.
Finally, there is nothing wrong with wanting the government to be run by a Christian that will hold to Christian values and use that in all his decisions. This country was founded by God fearing people...and we keep moving further and further away from those founding Christian principles.
President Bush used his "Christianity" to get elected. But his policies on the environment, the two wars, and poverty are not inline with scripture at all but Christians don't seem to be bothered by that.
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Serm...
the Declaration of Independence was written by Deists, not by Christians, and this is evident in its language. There is a lot wrong with wanting the government to be run by a Christian. There is nothing wrong with saying, I am a Christian, what are my values, how should they be reflected in my vote, what candidate best represents those values. A former church sister who voted for Obama blogged that her preference would be Bobby Jindahl. He is a Roman Catholic now, but what if he was a Hindu? And should a Protestant vote for an RC? Oh yeah, they settled that in West Virginia in 1960.
I spent some hours viewing U-tube clips of sermons at Trinity United Church of Christ, and I found little to disagree with, nothing vile. A lot of it was straight from Christ. I found a good deal to object to when Rev. Jeremiah Wright grabbed the limelight that the U-tube broadcasts afforded him, and started talking some real nonsense. That was about the time Obama broke ties with him. No matter how long you sat in a pew every Sunday, nobody is responsible for their pastor's speech, least of all people in office. Obama is accountable for what he does, not who he listened to in the past. We already did the looking into his background to see how authentic he is. Its called an election. In the final round, 53% of us found him worthy, and 47% would rather have had someone else. He knows that -- he's mentioned openly that 47% wanted someone else. That is a positive difference in understanding "mandate" compared to his predecessor.
When we the followers of Jesus the Christ / Messiah, are told to pray for our Leaders / the
President, Senators, Governors etc. we are not to pray for there success as a leader.
We are Not to pray that they get what they want or what we went, We are to Pray that all of
there actions and deeds are in line with what GOD wants.
We are to follow what Jesus said and tell others about who Jesus was - why He came
to Earth from Heaven - why he let Himself be killed on a cross - How and why he was raised/resurrected from the dead / grave and that He Jesus the Christ created our world
and all that is in it. As part of the God head - Father / Son / & Holley Sprite - our Life, our DNA
our world would NOT just happen it was Created.
In Matthew 10 : 32 & 33 it says -
32-" Whosoever therefore shall confess me (Jesus) before men, him will I (Jesus) confess also before My Father which is in Heaven."
33-" BUT whosoever shall deny Me (Jesus) before men, him will I (Jesus) also deny before My Father (GOD) which is in Heaven."
And in Romans : 10 - 9 & 10 it says -
9- "that if thou (you) shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus And believe in thine (your) hart that GOD hath raised him from the Dead. thou (you) shalt be saved."
10- "For with the hart man believeth unto righteousness; and with mouth confession is made unto (your) salvation."
and in Romans 12 : 1 & 2 it says -
1- "I Jesus BESEECH you therefore brethren ( followers of Jesus teaching ), by the mercies of GOD, that ye (you) present your bodies a Living Sacrifice, Holly, acceptable unto GOD,
which is your reasonable service."
2- And be Not conformed to this world: but be ye (you) transformed by the renewing of your
mind, that ye (you) may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of GOD."
We are Not to pray for or encourage people with Bad intentions that will hurt our USA or anyone that lives in our country or any other country. That goes for all humans of any age,
pre-born to old informed people.
We all need to Pray fervently that GODS will be done. and that all of our leaders will become followers of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.