Think Christian - Latest Comments in Religion and the Obama Administration

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Jerod — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:18:55 -0000

It seems we've talked this one out and strayed a little off topic. I'm going to go ahead and close commenting for now. I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to talk politics in the future.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:26:44 -0000

Not bad at all. To offer congratulations for such an accomplishment would be patronizing, but you have every right to be proud of it. Somehow, my reply to the rest of what you offered fell a few spaces down the column. Hope you can find it. Good luck and long life to you.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:24:54 -0000

Name calling is easy, and applying a 2000-year old name like Pharisees is easier. Personally, I thought George W. Bush and all the pastors who told their flock that voting for him was the Christian thing to do were Pharisees, for exactly the reason you cite here. But, many Christians disagree, so let's just calm down on the epithets. Jesus did not mention either George W. Bush or Barack Obama anywhere in the Bible. By the way, the most conservative of Jewish rabbis proudly proclaim themselves to be direct descendants of the Pharisees, and mean that in the positive, although more liberal Jewish spokespeople don't seem to speak that way.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:17:58 -0000

Nowhere in God's word? I cited the Biblical basis for my statement. In the hands of mere humans, the word of God is clear as mud, because we ALL impose our own preconceived notions on what we find, and, if it is the complete and perfect word of God, then none of us could hold even a tiny fraction in our own minds. I don't ask you to abandon what you found in God's word, it is obviously good for your individual relationship with God, but what God has for me is for me.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Drew — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:22:07 -0000

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for being careful to appear righteous on the outside, while inside they were full of greed and wickedness. Sounds like many politicians...but this really does sum up President Obama and his party. The Pharisees were a political and social movement and used faith and their religious responsibilities to better themselves or make themselves look better...sound familiar?

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Lee — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 23:04:52 -0000

religion & Obama . . . .
When we the followers of Jesus the Christ / Messiah, are told to pray for our Leaders / the
President, Senators, Governors etc. we are not to pray for there success as a leader.
We are Not to pray that they get what they want or what we went, We are to Pray that all of
there actions and deeds are in line with what GOD wants.
We are to follow what Jesus said and tell others about who Jesus was - why He came
to Earth from Heaven - why he let Himself be killed on a cross - How and why he was raised/resurrected from the dead / grave and that He Jesus the Christ created our world
and all that is in it. As part of the God head - Father / Son / & Holley Sprite - our Life, our DNA
our world would NOT just happen it was Created.
In Matthew 10 : 32 & 33 it says -
32-" Whosoever therefore shall confess me (Jesus) before men, him will I (Jesus) confess also before My Father which is in Heaven."
33-" BUT whosoever shall deny Me (Jesus) before men, him will I (Jesus) also deny before My Father (GOD) which is in Heaven."
And in Romans : 10 - 9 & 10 it says -
9- "that if thou (you) shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus And believe in thine (your) hart that GOD hath raised him from the Dead. thou (you) shalt be saved."
10- "For with the hart man believeth unto righteousness; and with mouth confession is made unto (your) salvation."
and in Romans 12 : 1 & 2 it says -
1- "I Jesus BESEECH you therefore brethren ( followers of Jesus teaching ), by the mercies of GOD, that ye (you) present your bodies a Living Sacrifice, Holly, acceptable unto GOD,
which is your reasonable service."
2- And be Not conformed to this world: but be ye (you) transformed by the renewing of your
mind, that ye (you) may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of GOD."

We are Not to pray for or encourage people with Bad intentions that will hurt our USA or anyone that lives in our country or any other country. That goes for all humans of any age,
pre-born to old informed people.

We all need to Pray fervently that GODS will be done. and that all of our leaders will become followers of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:40 -0000

It appears that BornToBeAlive is sort of responding to my response to Romayn, which is no longer visible, or maybe hasn't seen it, I can't tell which. Perhaps the moderators could straighten that out. I know a very nice married couple who both have muscular dystrophy, and a few others with the same condition. Neither they nor you are damaged tissue, nor is muscular dystrophy caused by bacterial or viral infection. But let's be real: anyone with a permanent disability is indeed "damaged" in the objective sense. It doesn't make anyone less of a human being. I note however that a cognitive disability, as distinct from a physical one, may in fact damage one's ability to make independent decisions. That's why caretakers are liable if they even allow people with serious cognitive disabilities to make potentially self destructive decisions for themselves. There are no simple slogans which cover all this ground.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

romayn — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 04:16:25 -0000

I was in no way intending to make my words sound close to Jesus and of course I do not want to have final say of such matters. But, no where in God's word does he say that those who reject him shall spend eternity with Him. The way to salvation is made clear in God's word.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:40:29 -0000

Perhaps you also have created a God in your own image. You no doubt read the Bible, but so do I. I find in Matthew 25, starting at the 31st verse, that many who profess faith in Christ will be sent to the right, with the goats, and many who never knew Christ will be sent to the left, to receive the reward prepared for them from the foundation of the world. There are self-professed Christians who read those verses differently, but I am confident that many Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, maybe a few atheists, will be with us in heaven. I believe two hallmarks of the saved are defined by what Jesus said were the two commandments on which hang "all the law and the prophets." And Jesus was quoting Hillel. I find Obama's actual words much closer to Jesus than yours. But that's just my opinion. God will judge, in the manner God chooses, in God's own time. Neither you nor I will have the final say.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:36:27 -0000

My dear brother in Christ, you are talking apples and oranges. When a baby has been delivered, nurtured, raised, and grown to childhood, adolescence, adulthood, it is definitely NOT mere damaged tissue. They are damaged human beings. I don't use damaged as an epithet, but if I can see, and another person cannot, because the cells that would have become eyes were ravaged by an infectious disease in utero, they are damaged. They may be a good friend, a brother or sister in Christ, but if an angel offered them restoration of sight, as a miracle gift from God, I have no doubt they would gratefully accept. Ditto for all kinds of other damage.

There was an article in TIME about children with relatively mild cases of Down's Syndrome who, with some matchmaking help from their mothers, had decided to marry. The bride asked her mother, if we have babies, will they have Down's Syndrome too. The mother truthfully said yes. The bride, after some tears, decided to have her tubes tied. She knew, as no-one else could, how difficult her life had been. While she was making the best of it, she resolved not to bring into the world a baby with the same difficulties. I applaud her courage and empathy.

One reason rubella is so much more devastating during pregnancy is precisely that the life growing within the mother is incomplete, undeveloped, and does not yet have fully developed faculties, so that the destruction wreaked by the infection may have more dire and irreversible consequences. I had rubella, measles, chicken pox, mumps, as a child, some years out of the womb, but it was merely a painful episode from which I recovered. I repeat, if rubella has damaged the tissues in an early stage of pregnancy, I would without hesitation remove the damaged tissue.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:27:15 -0000

I'm afraid you are wrong about both the president, his voting record, and the procedure sometimes called "partial birth abortion." The hullaballoo about this procedure is one of the mostly deliberately misleading, manipulative, corrupt, I might even say evil, political manipulations I have seen in a long time. Consider that the Constitution of the United States of America, as expounded by our nation's Supreme Court, leaves states entirely free to prohibit third trimester abortions. The only exceptions are to save the life or preserve the health of the mother. (As to the mother's life, I fully support the exception; The State has no business requiring a woman to lay down her life to save the baby. There has been some abuse of "the health of the mother," and it needs a clear definition. Incidentally, I respect the right of any woman to CHOOSE to risk her own life to save her baby -- if that is her free and voluntary desire, not even her husband, much less the local chapter of NOW, has any right to say otherwise.)

By its very nature, partial birth abortion can ONLY be performed at the very end of the third trimester. It is not applicable during the second or third trimesters. Therefore, it is already illegal, unless the mother's life (or health) are in danger. IF the mother's life is in danger, then, tragically, the baby (and at that point I have no doubt it is a baby) will be killed to save the mother. What difference does it make which procedure is used? It should be done swiftly to minimize pain, period. Otherwise, passing laws to prohibit a specific procedure are redundant, ANY procedure would be a criminal violation. Obama has recognized that throughout his legislative career and, mindful of the manipulative intent behind the campaigns for this redundant legislation, voted against it. That is to his credit.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

michelle — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:43:35 -0000

I agree, we as christians not only need to examine the subject, we as christians need our hearts examined daily. for it is written "for EVERYONE who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light, for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But, whoeever lives by( PRACTICES )the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God(John 3:20-21). Any evil can be judged and will be judged. God is the judge and all you have to do is ask God, who is pure and Holy if it is allright with Him to murder babies FOR ANY REASON and allow homosexual behavior. No I am not going to throw stones, I would get them thrown back at me, I am not stupid! That is why I am talking about the sin being judged, not the sinner. I don't get to judge the person, that is Gods place, if He wants too or not. But, I will stand with God against the sin, and we should not condone such behavior that we know is WRONG. His word said so, not mine. I know when it is all said and done God will deal with it.We as christians don't have to get worked up about it. We don't know what is going on in these peoples lives, only God does,that is why He is the judge,not us. His son died for them like He did for you and I. He loves them too. Now, are part is simple, all God wants us to do is pray for them and show love, but that is not saying we agree with or condone that live style.We are to love people where ever they are in their lives. And to tell the thruth in love. Don't deny the thruth, you know, ANY part of the gospel. God is pretty firm about how He feels about these two subjects, and that is why there is a spiritual warfare going on about this, It is not against flesh and blood.The devil knows how much God hates sin. Remember, it is sin that God hates, not the sinner.Otherwise, He would hate you and me. Lets start praying for all sinners, maybe they will get saved and lets pray for each other, we need it too to resist all evil temptations, more praying, less talking. Maybe we will be able to be used by God more to minister to them, but He can't use us if we are to busy condeming them to hell. Come on, how often do we try to go out and reach them, we just sit back and condemn them and get all worked up and talk about them, about how wrong that is. Have you ever had a heart to heart talk to people who practice sinful behavior. I challenge you to try it, pray to God first. Let's put an end to spending so much time debating, we don't have any energy left to go tell them that Jesus loves them and wants to heal thier hearts that is what a true christian is all about .Spend that energy going out and DOing SOMETHING FOR GODS PEOPLE. Not arguing. You will have great joy! Sorry Steve, I just took off on your wagon!

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

BornToBeAlive — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:20:36 -0000

I was born with Muscular Dystrophy. In case you don't know what that is, it's a degenerative wasting of the muscles until you are incapable to move, speak or breathe. I am not 'damaged' but a human being! I think for myself and tell others what I need done. Children are not born 'damaged' as you stated and they are not 'garbage' to be thrown out they are living breathing human beings!! Thankfully, my parents thoughts were not like yours I believe they made an intelligent choice in giving me life. I love life and is loved by everyone around me. Yes. I typed and thought this up with my own my mind, not bad for someone you consider damaged, hey?!!

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:22:43 -0000

A rabbi I often check with on the original meaning of Old Testament verses recounted that his wife was shopping in December when a woman in the check-out line wished her a Merry Christmas. She replied that she is Jewish and doesn't celebrate the holiday. The woman replied "Oh, that's OK, as long as you're a good Christian." The point is, while a Christian should indeed have Christian values in every area of their life, our Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, fellow citizens do not have Christian values, they have Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist values. They are all Americans. I might well find that in the part of my life called voting, a candidate of any of the above faiths had the requisite values to be president, although not to be my pastor. I might well prefer any of the above to a self-professed Christian whose values were different from mine. The rabbi would certainly agree that Adonai (the Lord) wants to be present in everything we do... but he would not invoke the name of Jesus. Incidentally, this rabbi is a Republican. I seldom agree with him on politics.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Drew — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:33:52 -0000

And a quick follow up...everything is wrong about not having Christian values and ideas. The Lord wants to present in everything we do. How can claim he is in one area of your life and then exclude him for another. It doesn't work that way!

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

romayn — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:11:11 -0000

Our president would disagree with your belief in not putting to death viable "fetuses". Late term abortions consist of natural live births before the child is put to death. This is becuase the child is resiliant enough to resist invitro abortafacients and would be wounded but not die. Obama has committed to Federally overturn bans on late term abortion. The states would no longer have a say in the matter.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

romayn — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:44:58 -0000

In his autobiography he says he does not believe in a single truth (with regard to faith and religion). He says that he does not know where we go when we die. These are the 2 hallmarks of the saved: belief that Christ is the only FOR ALL mankind (not just self and others choose their diety of choice) and assurance of where they will spend eternity. I believed he was a Christian too until I read his own words on the matter. He like many has been decieved and created a God in his own image instead of complete to surrender to the God in whose image he has been made.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

romayn — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:38:04 -0000

What a terribly "cruel" thing to say "take the damaged tissue out". Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Human Being who was a "rubella baby". These are human beings with immeasurable value for whom Christ died. They laugh, love, learn and are loved by their parents just as their typically developing children are. Why on earth would you refer to them as damaged tissue? Remember "...whatever you do unto the least of these you do unto Me"?

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

nathan — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:15:41 -0000

i have no problem with rick warren calling jesus differant names. we are a nation based on faith, and he was sharing his. we need people to know what we stand for. a muslim knows jesus, a jew knows jesus, a siek, a hindu, they all know about jesus. he was showing them who he was praying to, and what he believed. america needs that...

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

SiarlysJenkins — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:15:01 -0000

According to John Piper,
http://www.desiringgod.org/...
the Declaration of Independence was written by Deists, not by Christians, and this is evident in its language. There is a lot wrong with wanting the government to be run by a Christian. There is nothing wrong with saying, I am a Christian, what are my values, how should they be reflected in my vote, what candidate best represents those values. A former church sister who voted for Obama blogged that her preference would be Bobby Jindahl. He is a Roman Catholic now, but what if he was a Hindu? And should a Protestant vote for an RC? Oh yeah, they settled that in West Virginia in 1960.

I spent some hours viewing U-tube clips of sermons at Trinity United Church of Christ, and I found little to disagree with, nothing vile. A lot of it was straight from Christ. I found a good deal to object to when Rev. Jeremiah Wright grabbed the limelight that the U-tube broadcasts afforded him, and started talking some real nonsense. That was about the time Obama broke ties with him. No matter how long you sat in a pew every Sunday, nobody is responsible for their pastor's speech, least of all people in office. Obama is accountable for what he does, not who he listened to in the past. We already did the looking into his background to see how authentic he is. Its called an election. In the final round, 53% of us found him worthy, and 47% would rather have had someone else. He knows that -- he's mentioned openly that 47% wanted someone else. That is a positive difference in understanding "mandate" compared to his predecessor.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Mel — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:22:23 -0000

Well said Ryan. I don't want my country telling me how to worship no more than I want my church telling me who to vote for. Thank you founding fathers for the separation of church and state.

President Bush used his "Christianity" to get elected. But his policies on the environment, the two wars, and poverty are not inline with scripture at all but Christians don't seem to be bothered by that.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Drew — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:09:52 -0000

Ok, so lets look past the abortion and gay marriage idea. What about the church President Obama attended? I do not have the time to go into depth right now, but the vile speach that was to often part of sermons is what I find to be obsurd. Do you see Christ speaking that filth to his deciples or anyone else?

We are not judging Obama, but we do have the right to look at his backround and see how authentic he is. That is what this is about...not whether he supports gay marriage or not. If we wanted to talk straight politics, we could post ideas elsewhere, but we want to look at these ideas from a Christian perspective.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with wanting the government to be run by a Christian that will hold to Christian values and use that in all his decisions. This country was founded by God fearing people...and we keep moving further and further away from those founding Christian principles.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Ryan — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:44:32 -0000

I find it interesting that so many seem to believe that President Obama, in order to prove his Christian faith, must do his best to make Christian beliefs into law. How preposterous!

The two major issues that have been brought up, over and over, regarding President Obama's faith, are abortion and gay marriage. It is my opinion that, on these issues, he is making decisions based on equal rights and freedoms--not Biblical mandates. Which (again, in my opinion) is exactly what he should do. He is our President, not a religious leader.

It is possible to personally believe that abortion is wrong AND to believe that a woman should have the right to make that choice. Likewise, it is perfectly possible to believe that homosexuality is a sin AND to believe that homosexual couples should have equal rights under the law.

I do not agree with all the stances that President Obama has taken, but I also do not believe that it is his responsibility, as a self-proclaimed Christian, to enact Christianity as law.

Some may argue to the contrary, but the truth is that the United States is not, has never been, and never will be, a truly "Christian" nation. And this is a good thing! Were our government as intimately intertwined with the church as many seem to wish it were, would we truly have the freedom to worship God at all?

So in response to the question posed in Jerod's post, I do believe that faith will flourish under Obama's presidency--if we let it. If we look beyond tiny squabbles and get past the small-minded dogma that has seemed so prevalent for the last eight years. There are so many things happening in the world that Christians should care about beyond the legality of abortion or gay marriage.

Do I believe that President Obama will invite the faith community to play a vital role in creating social change? I certainly hope so, but that remains to be seen.

Do I pray that God will grant him wisdom as he makes decisions? Yes.

But do I wish to see him enact more Christian laws? No. Enacting religious laws that happen to agree with my beliefs isn't any better than enacting religious laws that I disagree with.

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

Rev. Miller — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:48:55 -0000

The debate regarding Obama's faith has become an ongoing contention regarding a man's personal convictions and beliefs. The bible says that everyone that proclaims Christ is not truly a follower of him. Paul the apostle also teaches that this life is seen in a distorted image, and the arrival of the savior will clear our vision and bring all things to light. The greater majority of us don't know Pres. Obama's personal life. Thus, it is almost impossible to judge a man who's speaks through the limitations of his political affiliation. If we realize the world's authority is and must become more and more corrupt, we will spend far less time scrutinizing those in leadership positions. Faith is individual, unity comes with love. "The world will know that you are my followers if you love one another", says the Lord of Hosts. Less judgement, mercy rules over judgement, more love...............

Re: Religion and the Obama Administration

robin — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:40:35 -0000

Well said. I totally agree - to be honest I was getting a little sick to my stomach reading all the other posts in support of him and his "Christianity".